INTERVIEWS-2

GIANT SAND HIT A RAMP

Howe Gelb, songwriter, founder member and mainstay of Giant Sand is an eccentric.   Last year he took a 75 year old singer on tour, was enlisted as guitar coach on the cult film BILL AND TED'S BOGUS JOURNEY and almost got the films star, Keanu Reeves, to appear on the bands recent LP RAMP.  DOMINIC REDSELL chatted to the man who confesses he doesn't own a stereo.
Glancing around the sparse dressing room I can see none of the familiar faces as being the rough and ready members of Giant Sand that crawled out of the Mojave desert in the early eighties, and along with bands like Green On Red and The Long Ryders rejuvenated the cause of American country rock.   Instead, a clean shaven, young looking and cheerful Howe Gelb greets me and sits down to talk.
Headline news first, I asked Howe about his involvement in the BILL & TED film.
"Basically I was called in to be the guitar coach, there was a scene where they were not supposed to play too well, so they got Giant Sand in to do the music for it!  But I ended up teaching them the whole stage routine, how to act on stage, basics of playing keyboards, guitar licks, all that kind of stuff.
I got along well with Keanu (Reeves) and we spent some time in-between filming playing guitar and drinking tequila in his trailer.  He came up with this bass riff that I had in mind working with John our drummer's stuff.  Unfortunately when it came to recording the LP in the studio I couldn't get in touch with him until it was too late, which was a shame."
Giant Sand seem to thrive on spontaneity, their latest LP RAMP is a showcase to their unique songwriting technique.  Completely at odds with convention it allows songs to be interrupted half way through and interspersed with lines of poetry and wild feedback guitar solos, to mix it with lovingly crafted acoustic passages.  (Yes I know REM do the same kind of thing, but these guys are the originals).
In the studio tracks are usually recorded first take, and other instruments are added when the mood takes him - he has been known to return to the studio late at night after playing a gig, to add extra guitar parts.  Albums are completed in just a couple of days solid recording but incredibly the end product always gels together to great effect.
The result unpredictable brilliance has become Giant Sand's trademark and seven LPs and numerous line-up changes down the road, Gelb's rambling imagination and diverse enthusiasm is undiminished.  Two tracks on RAMP, WELCOME TO MY WORLD and NOWHERE, feature the fine vocals of 75 year old Pappy Allen.  I asked Howe about Pappy, and his involvement with the band.
"Pappy's got the best voice you ever heard, he runs this fantastic bar down the road from me with his wife Harriet, who also sings.  Although he's getting on now he's still got that sparkle in his eyes.  He's an ex construction worker.  When we took him on tour with us round Europe last year he was singing four or five songs in the set each night and he still got up every morning at around 4 a.m."
Giant Sand tours have a habit of being unconventional.  For the tour to support THE LOVE SONGS LP, the financially stricken band consisted of just Howe singing and playing guitar and drummer John Convertino, driving between gigs in a tiny Honda Accord, playing just to pay their hotel bills and depending on T-shirt sales for petrol money.
Being short on cash is a situation the band seem used to, as they are reluctant to tie themselves to one of the big major labels and be launched into the mainstream.
"We've got an allergy to anything that's on paper," claims Howe, "Whether it's a set list or a contract.  If a label is interested in our band they'd probably have to come up with a contract that just doesn't exist."
If you're thinking that such maverick statements are part of a calculated image, I'm afraid you're wrong, as I discovered myself when I asked Howe what he thinks of the current music scene,
"Oh, I don't really pay much attention to it.  I don't buy too many records these days, in fact I haven't got a stereo at the moment.  I was given these two speakers by a friend, maybe I'll hitch them up to a turntable sometime."
Somewhat shocked, I ask him when he last listened to music on a regular basis.
"Oh not since 1973 or '74." he replies totally sincerely.
But before I can label him a has been with his head stuck firmly in the past, he suddenly asks...
"Can you tell me where I can get hold of the three backing singers in that Primal Scream video, I thought they looked really righteous.  I think they'd be great with our band."
You see, in the strange musical world of Howe Gelb, the imagination rules, anything is possible, and that's what makes Giant Sand one of the most original and fresh sounding bands out there at the moment.

HOWE GELB - THE SANDMAN NEVER SLEEPS
I had been huddled with my fellow DJ Big Myke Destiny outside the KFJC studios in Los Altos Hills, waiting for the Sandman, Howe Gelb, to arrive from Los Angeles to do an on-air interview for the "Big Guitar Show".  Eventually we sense it's not going to happen, and I point the battered old Puffmobile towards San Francisco and the I-Beam, site of tonight's Giant Sand gig.  At least the Bucketfull interview can be salvaged.

Greg Sage, halfway through his soundcheck, hasn't a clue where Howe is; in fact he's not real clear on who he is.  So I stake out a spot at the bar and contemplate an unsavoury life, while waiting, along with Howe's pal, expatriate Brit John Wesley Harding, for the man to appear.  At least, twenty minutes before Giant Sand are due to open the show, the club's manager in a dither, in wanders Howe, his Danish girlfriend, Sophia, bassist Joey Burns & drummer John Convertino.  Someone in LA has informed Howe he could make it up here in four hours, which he could easily have done by averaging one hundred miles per hour, without making any stops.  So much for dedication to one's art.

Howe and I immediately stride out to the van in search of a parking spot.  No sense in wasting this time, I think, so on goes the recorder, and we do half the interview while cruising around the Haight and hoofing it back to the club - all the while my tape deck jammed under Howe's nose.  Real man-in-the-street stuff.

It's by far the best set I've ever seen Giant Sand play, including brain-bending versions of "Thin Line Man" and "The Uneven Light Of Day", a personal fave.   We finish our pow-pow in the bar afterwards, with Howe, as tough to pin down as a grasshopper, periodically wiggling off the line to chat up a girl he's never met before, or trying to keep his head above water in a friendly game of pool with 'Wes' - near impossibility, I might add, for an American playing anyone trained in the cut-throat disciplines of snooker.  Howe takes his medicine like a man, and now I guess it's your turn.  An update ensues on Bucketfull's favourite resident mad-genius.

B.O.B.:  What's the story behind the German Howe Gelb album "Dreaded Brown Recluse"?

H.G.:  It had to be called something instead of Giant Sand.   At that point, on the last tour, Demon asked me if I would please not put out another record for another year, because three of 'em came out in 1990.  "Long Stem Rant" came out in January, "Blacky Ranchette" ("Sage Advice") came out with a sticker saying "This is Giant Sand"" in the spring, and then "Swerve" at the end of the year.  They got waylaid sometimes around the danger season.  I couldn't call it a "Blacky".  I needed some coin for the spring.  So this German label we wanted to work with (Houses in Motion) said they could handle the German market better than the English can, but maybe they would fail in the rest of Europe.  It was kind of an experiment.  So I borrowed a friend's DAT machine.   I was gonna record the whole thing for nothin' because I was broke, and just have a nice sweet little acoustic record.  Then we started getting jobs doing some film songs. When we'd be in there doing that, we'd use twenty minutes or so to come up with some other track for our own stuff.  Oh, and I lost the DAT tape that had the acoustic stuff on it, because they're so tiny.  Then I found the DAT tape so I ended up using parts of that, like the song "Brown Recluse".  Anyway they paid me enough coin to put it out and the entire record cost me about two gin and tonics for Eric Westfall to help mix a piece of it. So they put that puppy out.

B.O.B.: I take it it's named after the Dreaded Brown Recluse spider, which should go right over the heads of the European audience.

H.G.:  Yeah, God Bless'em.

B.O.B.:  Will "Ramp" the latest Giant Sand album be available in the US same as "Swerve" CD only through your own mail order ?

H.G.:  Yeah, through Big Julie in Tucson because even though we'd only sell a lot less than any other people we'd deal with, we'd see more return.  It's more like making lithographs than making records anymore.  The vinyl will only come out in Europe. The CD has two extra tracks, which is a shame because one of them is my daughter singing a beautiful little blues song she made up on the spot.

B.O.B.:  Chris Cacavas told me once he used to get wild calls from you at four in the morning to come on down and record at the Control Center.

H.G.:  It's always when you've got that last track to do.  There's always something more you need and want to do, and you don't know what the hell it is.  Then you start thinking, "who can I get down here ?" 

B.O.B.:  Steve Wynn says you and he used to fantasize about just going out on tour as guitarists so you could take lots of drugs and just stand in the shadows and play.

H.G.:  Yeah,  but I got to do that with Fruit Child, Large.  That was a severe pleasure.  Evan Dando from the Lemonheads, Juliana Hatfield from Blake Babies and me and John (Convertino).  I got to sing two or three songs and just be a guitar player and that was more fun than ever.

B.O.B.:  How did you link up with Evan Dando ?

H.G.:  In Boston. His manager tried to manage us.  He found us unmanageable, and then he stopped managing him as well.  But in the interim we had met him and Syd Straw (all in one clump).  I love Syd.  Syd was great - and her boyfriend, Mark Ribeaux, a great guitar player.  But I didn't have my pants on at the time.  'Cause I sat in tar in New York, so Evan said, "come on get your pants off man and wash off the seat."  So I did it and Mark comes in.  "I'm Howe", I tell him, "I met you before with Elvis Costello".  That was back when I insulted Elvis' wife.  She was cool.  We went to see "Fantasia" together with my little girl.  But Vicki (Victoria Williams" told me she was pregnant.  And I'm really into people having babies.  I want to bond with them, because I had a baby, and I never thought I would.  I wanted to tell her, "yeah, yeah, it's good having a kid and all."  So I asked her, and she said no she wasn't.  So not only did I put both feet in my mouth, but Elvis owns the record label I was on (Demon).  But we're on Rough Trade now.

B.O.B.:  Cacavas also told me, "I wish I had a Dad like Howe".

H.G.:  Aww, that breaks my heart.  This is when I bring out a picture of Indiosa.  I'm waiting 'til she's twelve.  I figure it this way.  Right now I'm into having grandkids, so if she gets into trouble, I'm gonna be cool.  You remember when you were there.  We all remember the first one.  It's a powerful entity.  It's a powerful club.  It's salmon - the salmon in us all.

B.O.B.:  Why did you move out from LA to the desert in Rimrock ?

H.G.:  Because life was good.  Every day felt like I had a stupid smile on my face.  Hey, here's a bit of trivia for ya.  I wake up one morning and Russ Tolman is not only in cabin number 2, but Gene Parsons (ex Byrds drummer) comes up and knocks on the door.  So we had a little jamboree with him.  I didn't know who he was.  He was a great guy and played excellent banjo.

B.O.B.:  Isn't Rimrock pretty close to Joshua Tree National Monument, where Gram Parsons died ?

H.G.:  Yeah, yeah and when Gram OD'ed there they ran the picture of Gene in the local paper, because Gene was from there.  But Gram was from Georgia.  And Gene's Dad who'd been homesteading there since the 30's sees it and calls his son up and says "Gene, are you dead ?"  And Gene goes, "not yet".  One other thing: when Clarence White (ex Byrds guitarist) died, the last thing he said was, "let's get out of here; somebody's gonna get killed."  He was out loading his truck, and there were all these drunk people leaving a bar, and an old lady hit him (with her vehicle). 

B.O.B.:  Have you ever thought about doing a concept album, something like Steve Wynn's baseball album idea ?

H.G.:  I can't understand that.  Well, as of right now, no.  I think we did 'em all in pieces.  If you were to assemble a song from hither and a song from tither, from all different albums, and put them together, you'd get some type of concept album, like the 'Dance' record or the 'Blues' record, I guess.

B.O.B.:  Did you ever see the Serfers (pre Green On Red) play back in your early Tucson days ?

H.G.:  Yeah, and I was actually like friendly with Danny (Stuart), but ever since then have not been friendly with Danny.  Danny's difficult.  Any time I read anything he's said in an interview, I enjoy reading it.  But when I'm with him, it's fun to fuck with him for a while.  Then after a while you just want to leave.  He drops name that you know he doesn't even know - like Barry Goldwater (laughs).

B.O.B.:  How would you characterize your vocal style ?

H.G.:  I'm the spewer.  I collect spittle all over the microphone, just like Henry Rollins.  He's on a talking tour right now and it's really great.  He's kinda turning into a comedian.  But he always had that in him.  Part of what makes him funny is what makes Robert De Niro funny in "Cape Fear".  At the end, when he's holding the gun, the sound of his head when it moves going, "swish, swish".  I love that.  Ever since I've turned 30 I've understood the whole manipulative trend of the woman and the universe and how stupid men are.  In my twenties I was severely stupid.  But I've managed to make it this far with no sexual diseases at all.  You too ? (Affirmative).  Yeah, very few people can say that.  We're here to replenish the earth with healthy specimens.

B.O.B.:  Do you get asked about Neil Young often ?

H.G.:  Yeah, I get asked that a lot.  I love Neil Young.  I never want to meet him, because that would be like talking to one of your dreams.  His guitar playing was my inspiration - his electric playing, like the way he made the wrong notes work.  I don't like everything he does, and I love it even more that he can do that.  He's my ideal . . . like if there was a neighbourhood to live in, it's Neil's neighbourhood.

B.O.B.:  How would you spend the rest of your life if music was impossible ?

H.G.:  I know exactly what I would do.  I'd be an aerial photographer.  There's something that I love about being in a helicopter, and I love cameras.  Cities, the countryside, the entire planet.  That would be my fantasy - too eventually collect squares of the planet at 30,000 feet.

B.O.B.:  That might be one hell of a big book.

H.G.:  Would it ?  Ok, 50,000 feet.  Everything makes so much more sense.

It's plain to these ears that Howe already has a view of the world most people never see.  No less an authority than Steve Wynn called him "one of the few geniuses in rock and roll".

I broached the idea of visiting Howe in Rimrock someday, to soak up a bit of his daily existence, and he seemed agreeable.  It's just one more example of the in depth coverage that Bucketfull readers demand.  In the meantime, don't fail to score a copy of Giant Sand's latest album "Ramp".  You'll be turned away at the gates of Heaven one day if they find out you haven't heard Pappy Allen sing "Welcome To My World".  I wouldn't chance it. 

JUD COST.

RETURN OF THE GIANT BLACK SAND THING starring Howe Gelb

Howe Gelb was recently in London, finishing up a lengthy Giant Sand tour with a gig at the Borderline.  On the afternoon of this, the final show of the band's European jaunt, I joined him for a swift pint or two in a comfortable hostelry around the corner from Paddington station, eager to hear about the latest developments in the convoluted sort of wayward rock'n'rollers, Giant Sand and country cousins, The Band Of Blacky Ranchette.

As background to the banter, I should mention that a new Blacky Ranchette record, "Sage Advice" is just out on Demon, that a new Giant Sand album (the follow-up to the January-released "Long Stem Rant") is already in the can, and that Demon taped the Sand's recent gig at London's Subterrania club for possible release as a live LP.  A glut of Giant Sandworms/Giant Sand/Blacky Ranchette historical info is contained in articles in back issues 18, 19 and 24.  For this tour Giant Sand have reverted to a three-piece format: Howe Gelb (gt/vcls) John Convertino (drums) with ex-Dream Syndicate bassist Mark Walton.

B.O.B.:  Why have you made a new Blacky Ranchette record, I thought you told me before that you were knocking Blacky on the head?

H.G.:  Yeah, the bastard came around again.

B.O.B.:  But why?  I thought the Giant Sand could do anything Blacky could do?

H.G.:  Alright, let me think....we do the records so quick, like "Long Stem Rant" should have been out in October but it got pushed back to January, and Homestead (US record co.) said they wouldn't put out another Giant Sand record until September.  That just seemed like a ludicrous amount of time, so I needed a hobby and I knocked on Blacky's grave.  I moved out to the Mojave desert, California - only about three hours east of L.A., but it's where the world drops off, it's in the middle of nowhere; hundreds of square miles of Joshua tree infested high desert - so we get snow.  So I'm up there and the itch for Blacky just came into play, so I called up Andy at Demon (UK record co.) and worked out the details but I said "I'm leaving to go on the road in 10 days, so this weekend's the only time".  He said OK, and we worked out a price.  I jumped in the Barracuda, and drove down to Tucson, an eight hour drive, trying to figure out what the hell I was gonna do for the Blacky record!  I recorded in Tucson with a total of 21 different people, eighty percent was done in Tucson.  Paco 'Wulftung' Paycheck (a thin disguise) is on a few tracks, you know his playing (dobro & slide), and Ned Sutton, who I played honky tonk piano for, for three months up in the Black Hills.  I hired on with his band, it was a gas.

B.O.B.:  Who were they?  Tell me a bit about them.

H.G.:  Ned Sutton & The Rabbits.  He's about 42, a great country singer, great cartoonist.  He made one record a long time ago, "Drug Store Cowboy", some German company put it out.  He's best either when he's alone with his acoustic guitar, with this deep, rich voice of his, or when he's got a whole band operating exactly the way he wants.  He's got really good ideas for rhythm and drum beats.  We got him to sing on three tracks: two different versions of "Loving Cup" and a remake of "3 6ies" called "Outside An Angel's Reach."

B.O.B.:  So when did you play with The Rabbits?

H.G.:  1981, when the Giant Sandworms were leaving New York and breaking up.  I hired on with Ned, went up to the Black Hills and played three, four, five sets a night - the only time I did that shit.  I didn't know the songs, he'd just shout out the key and I'd stop, take pictures of the audience and go back and play.  There will come a time when I'm able to do, like we did with Rainer (of Rainer & Das Combo, etc), and get some kinda record out.  He made that Blacky buckle on the cover of "Heartland" - which they coloured up, basically it's all brass - he did that in the Big House, y'know.  He's a real genius.

B.O.B.:  Right, so who else is on "Sage Advice"?

H.G.:  The bass player Ned always works with, Steve Graham, then there's this cool country cover band that Tommy Larkins plays with - he bought in his guitar player and bass player (Bob Soto & Steve Wendling) from that and we did a cover of a Waylon Jennings song, "Trouble Man" - we recorded the train outside, it's beautiful - Tommy's on there, and Neil Harry plays pedal steel.  So, yeah....we did the album really quick.  Now we do "Sage Advice" (the title track) with Giant Sand now, but it's a little bit more crunchy.

B.O.B.:  I hear the next Giant Sand album is already done too, but you said you might change some of it?

H.G.:  Yeah....if tomorrow was the deadline, it'd be done; Steve Wynn came down one night with Chris Cacavas and played three or four songs.  But we've got these new songs from on the road....

B.O.B.:  Of all your records "Long Stem Rant"  (issued in January) sounds the most like you just went in the studio, turned on the tape and did it, with few preconceived ideas.

H.G.:  Oh yeah, except for three songs.

B.O.B.:  So is that the closest to your ideal, where you go in, do it, and it goes out, then you go straight on to the next?

H.G.:  That's the way I wanted to do THAT record.  The main objective is to simply get it done.  Period, when you only have a few grand, or a few hundred to work with you figure out how to do it for that, how to throw the artwork together.  By 1991, we'll have the rock opera done, that's next.

B.O.B.:  Oh yeah?  What's your theme?

H.G.:  These two planets co-existing dangerously close to each other, so when you look up in the sky you can see streets and cities.  As near as they can figure out, there was one planet that existed millions of years prior, which was probably earth.  Then through, rebirth and regeneration there was a split, one planet came apart and they started orbiting around each other.  There's all this great mythology about when the mountains from both planets got too close and they scraped each other and canyons would form and crazy stuff, with all this wonderful weather....

B.O.B.:  It hasn't got a blind kid who plays pinball in it, by any chance?

H.G.:  No, I haven't roped in that yet.  But there's no prejudice, and less patriotism so things happened a lot smoother.

B.O.B.:  Sounds like a double album to me!

H.G.:  Triple!! (laughs).  I would simply worry about me being able to make any of this imagery clear; but then it would probably turn into something else anyway, maybe I have to make a graphic novel out of it, which would be nicer.

B.O.B.:  Do you think your popularity is picking up now.  Like at the Subterrania show there were maybe 450 people, whereas whenever I've seen you before there were like....

H.G.:  Twenty eight!  Germany was scary, there were over 500 in Frankfurt, 600 in Vienna, and other shows with three or four hundred.  It was a little embarrassing.  We established this credo within the band, y'know, we're not a Pop band, so we're gonna do what we wanna do; so when all these people show up, it's like.......we don't have a set list, sometimes the time in-between songs gets monotonous, some nights we just bang through it - when it's angry it's better, actually.  Some nights you get chocolate, some nights you get Tabasco - every night is different, because we get bored.  We are the professional audience that we carry with us to every show, we have to be tantalized!

B.O.B.:  So how do you think Mark Walton found playing with you as opposed to the Dream Syndicate?

H.G.:  I think he's had a lot more freedom, and a ton of fun.  He's got totally the right attitude, but he's in another band called Laughing Sam's Dice, in L.A.  They're good, kinda like a "Sticky Fingers" sounding band.  I like John (Convertino) as a partner, but I love playing with Mark, Chris Cacavas, Paula and all the people in Blacky.  There are still other people that I haven't been able to play with yet....

B.O.B.:  You obviously have someone in particular in mind?

H.G.:  Duane Jarvis and Dusty Wakeman.  Dusty is a bass player and comes from a Motown background and Duane played with the Divinyls and Lucinda Williams (who also sings on "Sage Advice"), a nice blend of slide guitar and mandolin.  There's people out there, there's all kind of possibilities.

B.O.B.:  Do you think you might do gigs with a big band again (like Giant Sand/Rainer/Blacky Ranchette revue of a few years back)?

H.G.:  It depends on the logistics.  We were trying to get Chris Cacavas to come over (on the latest tour), but we needed help from his record company.  Mark played on his album, John knew the songs and I knew some, so we were going to do a set of his stuff in-between our stuff, like we did with Rainer.  The record company was into it but at the last minute said no.  They're going to bring him over with Jack Waterson.

With that Howe headed off to finish up the Giant Sand Euro tour, ending up amidst a stage full of dancing girls trying to get some impromptu backing vocals and failing totally amidst general lunacy.  As the man says "every night is different", but from my experience the odds are on for a great evenings entertainment when Howe Gelb is your host.  Go on, take the risk.

JON STOREY.